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Fair. Maybe you could put this exact text in the homepage, would be a nice touch.
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Are you going to provide non-US numbers? Many apps and things are censored/blocked in the US and they use numbers as verification.
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Appreciate the response. Thank you.
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I'm Jonathan Wilkins (ex CSO at Blockstream and River) I've been doing privacy and security for just shy of 30 years. Adam Back is one of our advisors. We''d love a few minutes of your time to talk about what we're trying to achieve.
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Hi Derek, We operate on the T-Mobile network but they do not have access to or visibility on any of our customer data. The MNO (in this case T-mobile) will still see what towers your device and SIM are connecting to but will not see any of your customer data. Also, the NFT was an attempt introduce the ethereum NFT community to the ability of liquid to accomplish the same (albeit useless) NFT functionality on the Bitcoin blockchain using layer 2 tech. We didn't end up doing it finally because the nuance wrt what we were doing was lost on most (hence your comment). Hope that helps.
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We're here for all the services that still leave you exposed to an SMS. Your bank, your AppleID, etc
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In a nutshell, I would say that our value prop is as follows: 1) Solved SIM swap attacks by only allowing subscribers to modify their accounts and only after they authenticate using proven open source authentication technologies. 2) We accept Bitcoin and were founded by long time privacy advocates (both co-founders worked at Zeroknowledge Systems in 2000 along side Dr Adam Back and other privacy pioneers). 3) We offer multiple non KYC purchase options. Finally, our parent company is working on the Cloaked Network (An open source Bitcoin incentivized decentralized private network that will hopefully replace Tor some day).
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Hi! We're here too. Happy to answer any questions.
SIM swaps happen because there are too many people at the various telcos who have the ability to make changes to your account. We restrict this to the user instead of allowing thousands of sales and support staff to do it.
The way it works is that we buy wholesale minutes from the carrier and we handle the customer info. They don't see any personal info, just the MSISDN, IMSI and an IMEI.
We don't care what you call yourself. Pay with bitcoin or monero and you don't need to give us any real info.
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We are in 100% agreement. We will celebrate the day when a service like our that protects against SIM swap attacks is no longer needed because SMS or voice based 2FA is abolished, but until then, we will be here offering the best protection against those types of attacks.
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I've used it and it works well. Very low friction to get it set up with android esim.
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Unfortunately with hackers bribing support and operations staff up to $20k/week to perform SIM swaps, locks or pins just don't work. 100% of SIM swaps are the result of someone other than the user modifying the customer account. That's why our solution is the only one that solves the problem. Only the user can modify their account and only after they authenticate themselves using proven open source authentication software.
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I looked into hushed. did not get good vibes re: how safe/legit their set of available numbers might be, but I suspect that's just a shortfall in my understanding of that space. is this just voip in another costume?
it would be interesting if a company would truly step up to sell real privacy protection, with "we will protect you, and here's our <resource-backed> promise to pay you if we fail". actively shielding and protecting you, their treasured client, as their paid service, not just a "well, we'll try, but you know the interwebs these days" lame-ass hint-promise...
what would I pay for such protection? hard to guess, but that's because it's hard to trust any such unproven biz models? what if there was a "I'll ramp up to pay more as you prove your value" trust-earning subscription model? with a known-up-front fees cap, but also a known rev-growth path to help motivate them to keep their promises? the power of aligned incentives!!!
and yeah, as noted before, I'm known to be wildly idealistic... that's why I'm here!
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they’ve been supporting nostr:npub1dwah6u025f2yy9dgwlsndntlfy85vf0t2eze5rdg2mxg99k4mucqxz7c52 ATX the past two years with SIM cards for the livestreams/speaker wifi 📡 solid team
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Why?
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This is the better way to
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As a pleb, it doesn’t sound that groundbreaking to me and feels a bit deceptive.
Lots of carriers now allow you to lock your sim from transfers, and many logins allow you to use an authenticator app rather than phone number.
The largest benefit would be if they could maintain privacy, but from the info on their website, it doesn’t seem much better than any other carrier. Even if they don’t collect and store private data, they are no doubt using one of the big wireless carriers network which still has the ability to track every device connected to it.
I could be very wrong one either of these points, if so someone please correct me, but as I see it this is just an overpriced cell service with slightly higher sim swap protection.
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They pitch the service against SIM swap attacks, when you shouldn't use SMS for 2FA or rely on the plain line for secure communication. Not a great move.
However, maybe the privacy given from the data plan is enough to consider it.
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It has some people behind it that have been successful in the past, but not at this scope. Imo there's a potential, 5% chance for major success.
The fact that its bitcoin adjacent could be a big benefit in terms of getting the word out.
The marketing is too good at this point, so that's a red flag in my opinion.
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no, VPN will only work for application side of your phone. Watch Naomi Brockwell videos, she has some explaining the two sides of the phones. If you want to control of the app side of the phone use GrapheneOs as well. Naomi has videos on it.
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Sorry my docs suck atm
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I see zero technical documentation backing their claims.
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first I've heard of it.
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vs silent.link vs hushed
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Can only speak about Mint Mobile. Didn't use it myself because I can't use it in my country, but that the recommended in the privacy community.
And you can use mysudo to get a virtual number too.
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i’m still on my parents family line 😅
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my phone number was sold by Verizon and ATT and TMobile in the past, my number was not sold by Google Fi which is an MVNO. I know this because I looked myself up on truepeoplesearch and there are legal cases with these wireless carriers for selling location data and ph numbers. Also fi has strong protection against sim swaps, account secured by security key through Google account. Maybe not as good as cloaked but better than the big 3 in my opinion. I'm looking into cloaked, looks interesting.
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"While I can't pick just one, I believe the best service often depends on your specific needs and preferences. Exploring a few options might lead you to the perfect fit! 🌟"
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Which service would you recommend for that?
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This is the way
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Most have vpn. Wouldn’t that be enough?
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burner e-sims are cheaper.
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👀
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Reading up on it now. Also, I remember this Veritasium video helped me understand more about what security flaws are common in the current systems out there. Interesting if there’s a good way to solve it all!
https://youtu.be/wVyu7NB7W6Y
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i never heard of them before, but launching with an NFT makes me less of a fan. at the end of the day, they're still an MVNO. so im curious how their privacy and security efforts work at the carrier level. they may be unable to modify customer data, but does that also mean that Verizon cannot either?
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If one of the benefits is your number not getting leaked to spam callers/texters Id be all over that
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👀
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finally someone asking for opinions
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🫡
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opinions on https://cloakedwireless.com/ ?
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Thanks 🙏
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it's a really good client!
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Gratitude 🙏 friend: Goodness and love for humanity has to win. 🥇
but also … FYI 👇
https://m.primal.net/NhdA.jpg
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Good morning 🫡
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Bravo, Jeff. GM🫡.
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Did a presentation yesterday with ego death team to over 80 funds, family offices, and high net worth individuals. All smart and curious. Just caught in the wrong frame of reference - like we all were at one point.
…And….Every time I do a presentation, talk or meeting (outside of #nostr ) it reinforces how unbelievably early we are on this journey.
One of the reasons, I was early and so intrigued with the internet, is that the smartest people I knew were moving their time to it. (Before it was captured by broken money)
The same thing playing out on the #bitcoin protocol with a massive added plus…..Not only the smartest/most curious people, but generally those with a high level of integrity and aligned values.
Feel so much gratitude to you all!
And good morning.
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It's a real pleasure to use #Jumble.
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Running https://jumble.social by nostr:npub1syjmjy0dp62dhccq3g97fr87tngvpvzey08llyt6ul58m2zqpzps9wf6wl
It is really underrated, try it.
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I believe you. I never tried.
PS: nice PP
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Nostr is simple. Writing good nostr clients is hard.
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protocols will survive by network itself 💜
( i just thinking about damus x slidestr ? )
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Damn, this is really cool!
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Very enlightening, thanks!
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Users always have to trust clients, they don't have the other way.
For reactions/zap/replies at protocol level, we are evaluating HyperLogLog (see https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1561) that seems to be a good (probably the only) solutions to an aggregate counting in a decentralized structure. There are risks about gaming the system, but they can be attenuated; therefore, they are already present today with a plain sum of events done by clients.
The reading cache is not only a cache, is potentially a totally new API abstracted on that data, probably with more processing (e.g. extracting images/videos data, text metrics, etc). This off-protocol approach gets from the network, but doesn't give back nothing, and so it creates an unfair competition since casual users that don't know these technical details see these off-protocol clients as a better choice, ignoring that they cannot exist without the protocol devs that hardly work every day to create a interoperable standard. They also don't know that they aren't Nostr clients at all in the strict sense, since they lost all the decentralized ability (if the API server goes down or is censored, the client is dead).
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I don't have a problem with proprietary tech or platform building on Nostr.
Many proprietary business can be build on this huge transparent and verifiable dataset. AI and LLM is one example. Search is another one. As long as this dataset remains open and not a walled garden, proprietary technologies built on top of Nostr will not signal its decline — quite the opposite.
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Feel this one. Maybe I’m coming at things from a more cutthroat world, but I can’t imagine an early Nostr investor *not being* a relatively thoughtul and open-minded person. I mean for a genuinely crafty or ill-willed investor, of all the things you could invest in...
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I hear you. Keep up the good work.
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Ah yes, I was thinking more along the lines of counts and such that a client can only achieve with some kind of central-server model, and that users would therefore be trusting the client on (seeing as they can't get such accurate counts from the protocol itself.) But I didn't think about blocked/delayed sync for notes themselves as a dark tactic, that's an interesting thought.
Where I'm a little confused still is why this cacheing sometimes seen as a looming threat to the model when it's just on the read side? I'd totally get it if it was on the write side too, but if just on the read side then it seems to be benign enough, like watching live events streamed on YouTube but things being buffered a few minutes for smoothness.
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> or in the worst case purposefully altered
Fortunately this is not possible, events are signed.
But a blocked/delayed sync could effectively be a dark tactic from a client that has a large userbase.
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also, it's quite notable that i almost never see people replying to miljan in my feed... funny that
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#Alexandria is using outboxes, already. Decided to just start off, that way. Skip the bullshit.
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You are not wrong, but also missed the obvious which you might have arrived at if you'd stick to the metaphor;
You are saying the townssquare is not the breakout usecase, sure, but whatever 'establishment' get super popular is still connected to that square.
Thats what the square is; the center to all the shops, restaurants, cafes, theaters etc.
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primal's interface is ugly af
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attacked how? with words on a screen? Let them attack then
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Town-square micro-blogging, aka Big World, is not the breakout use case for Nostr, just as consumer operating system was not the breakout use case for Linux (servers were).
Nostr won't hit serious numbers until the breakout use case is found, and when that happens town-square microblogging will take a relative back seat for some years, perhaps to return later. But on a positive note that breakout use case will be glorious.
Town-square microblogging is however a great genesis use case—something to get the ball rolling and keep it rolling until the breakout use case emerges from the quantum soup.
Self-slap for the mixed-metaphor.
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There are many investors in the space that understand the complexity & cost of protocol development and believe in the multiplicative effect it can cause. There are investors that are also excited about the technology, the vision, the solution and they like to help good cause. They need to see some hint of path to success, but especially in the early rounds all investors understand that they most likely won't see their money back. Investors can then provide their network of people, help with hiring, help with resources, exposure and marketing, etc. (i.e. provide not just money, but other values too)
Now, you keep putting all these investors into a single bucket of evil people and attack their integrity with posts like this and that's something that investors are sensitive to. Many investors don't share publicly that they are investors and so you may see people in your comments that seem hurt & attacked without any obvious reason. This could explain some of it.
On the specifics - detailed search functionality with complete DSL is imo overrated. The world is shifting to just text and multi modal search anyway. Even if Primal can do better experience because they don't design a protocol solution, it doesn't matter much. If Damus (and nostr) gets basic search, people will be happy enough.
Further, there are examples where one app pioneers a great experience that users enjoy that is then later codified into a protocol. Sometimes the usecases and user needs need to be more fleshed out before we freeze those into a protocol.
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This is also my question.
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Isn't this generally the challenge that open-source software is up against? I think we're only just realizing how much the fiat system has formed our habits. Hopefully more talent gravitates toward the open-source field as mindsets change, but as it stands we still need fiat to play the game. Maybe software developers need to start choosing more humble paths for the sake of human growth instead of prioritizing large paychecks.
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What I'm still not convinced of is that proprietary nostr clients / ecosystems make much sense as a business model.
Twitter can barely survive bombarding people with shitty ads. How exactly is Primal supposed to make a profit?
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up yer game and go #onlyzaps
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Dan gets it. 👆💯🚀🔥🥄
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👆👆✅
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👆
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Interoperability was one of the main things that attracted me to nostr. Without it, there isn’t any point.
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k. Good talk.
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💯
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#amethyst
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Replace Primal with Twitter in this post and the meaning is the same
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my setup as well
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I choose less featured clients and interoperability #nostr
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Until your island floats away. That’s the point.
Now beat it.
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Prediction: nostr:npub1exv22uulqnmlluszc4yk92jhs2e5ajcs6mu3t00a6avzjcalj9csm7d828 is replacing failed nostr!
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Then just use not-primal.
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So I go Primal Island. If they do something I don't like, I find another island. But I can vote with my feet and find a new island. Seems ok to me.
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WoS on TestFlight works great. Anywhere. VPN required.
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I'm on Android..
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I really want something like HyperLogLog to happen
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Just use Damus. ✅
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Same, but WoS stopped working for me.
Primal wanted an anal probe / KYC, so I declined. Coinos for pocket change has worked so far.
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I'm not well versed in the area at all.. how can you tell what's a protocol feature vs a client implementation?
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This was before any of the Primal drama, btw.
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I made this in July 2023.
It has turned out more true than I thought https://i.nostr.build/9a9OXeN7wUJPE8Qn.jpg
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It's time to implement the "green chat bubbles". Not sure what that is in this case, but users of misbehaving clients could be made aware by their followers "hey, this thing you shared looks weird on my proper nostr client" instead of compensating for broken compatibility.
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The real deal. I knew it. 👆👌
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go to notedeck folder >
right-click run ternminal >
git pull >
cargo run --release
just to support @jb55
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🧐🤔
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Lol
if only you knew how I nostr lol
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it's so over
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Says TKay as he responds from his Primal app 😂
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Please don’t give up.
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I try and get attacked for it. Just gonna give up. Seems like the number of people who care about this is dwindling by the day anyways.